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Discussione: [HOCKEY NHL] Pronostici, Risultati, News STAGIONE 2015-16

  1. #61
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    ieri finalmente una nottata passata liscia liscia senza troppi colpacci...mi entra sia over che la doppia

    mi spiace nn aver aggiunto islanders e wild che erano per un po piu scomode ma su cui avevo dato un occhio attento

  2. #62
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    grande donk. ma mlb hai mollato???
    dopo una stagione davvero dura e onestamente negativa, mi sto almeno riprendendo alla grande nei playoffs (9W-2L).
    ieri sono uscito vivo dalla sconfitta dei dodgers in casa con greinke, ma nn mi fidavo di questi mets e degrom, anzi sono uscito in profitto andando su under che era la scelta piu logica (pochissimo valore sulla micro quota La)

  3. #63
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    NHL - Risultati 15 Ottobre

    WASHINGTON -- John Carlson and T.J. Oshie each had a goal and an assist, Braden Holtby made 26 saves and the Washington Capitals defeated the Chicago Blackhawks 4-1 on Thursday night.
    It was Oshie's first goal as a member of the Capitals.
    Matt Niskanen's third period tally put Washington up 3-0 and Alex Ovechkin, who was benched Tuesday night after sleeping in and missing the morning skate, closed out the scoring when he converted a pass from Evgeny Kuznetsov during a 2-on-1 break with 5:42 left.
    Kuznetsov and Marcus Johansson had two assists each for Washington.
    Rookie Viktor Svedberg's first NHL goal was Chicago's lone tally.

    Penguins 2, Senators 0
    PITTSBURGH -- Daniel Sprong joined a small but elite group of 18-year-olds to score as a Pittsburgh rookie, Evgeni Malkin also scored and Penguins finally won for the first time this season, beating Ottawa.
    Marc-Andre Fleury turned aside 22 shots in his 39th career NHL shutout and his 11th over the last two seasons as the Penguins -- off to their worst start in 10 years -- won after dropping their first three games.

    Islanders 4, Predators 3
    NEW YORK -- Nikolay Kulemin scored the go-ahead goal 6:42 into the third period and the New York Islanders rallied with four consecutive goals to beat Nashville at the Barclays Center.
    John Tavares, Anders Lee and Kyle Okposo also scored for the Islanders, who fell behind 2-0 early in the second period. Thomas Greiss had 44 saves.
    Austin Watson, Filip Forsberg and James Neal scored for Nashville.

    Stars 5, Lightning 3
    TAMPA -- Dallas pulled out a win over Tampa Bay Lightning at Amalie Arena.
    The Stars trailed early but scored four straight goals to take control for their first road win of the season, while the Lightning saw goalie Ben Bishop give up five goals, matching the most he allowed since his first season with Tampa Bay in April 2013.
    Tyler Seguin, Jamie Benn, Cody Eakin, Jason Demers and Jason Spezza scored for Dallas while Steven Stamkos scored twice and Vladislav Namestnikov scored the other for Tampa Bay.

    Panthers 3, Sabres 2
    SUNRISE, Fla. -- Veteran Jaromir Jagr scored two first-period goals, and Roberto Luongo continued an impressive recent trend, leading Florida over Buffalo at the BB&T Center.
    Luongo earned win No. 403, tying Grant Fuhr for ninth place on the NHL list. Luongo is 7-0 with four shutouts in the past two years against the Sabres.
    Jake McCabe and Tyler Ennis scored for Buffalo.

    Canadiens 3, Rangers 0
    MONTREAL -- The third line provided the offense to give Montreal a win over the New York Rangers at the Bell Centre.
    Tomas Fleischmann, Dale Weise and Tomas Plekanec scored for the Canadiens, who are 5-0-0 to start the season for the first time in franchise history.
    Carey Price made 25 saves for Montreal, earning his 35th career shutout and claiming sole possession of fourth place on the Canadiens' all-time list. Netminder Henrik Lundqvist stopped 29 shots for the Rangers.

    Blues 4, Oilers 2
    EDMONTON, Alberta -- St. Louis spoiled Edmonton's home opener with a win to continue its run of dominance.
    It marks the eighth straight time the Blues beat the Oilers, a streak that dates back to Dec. 21, 2013. In that span, the Blues outscored the Oilers 34-13.
    Vladimir Tarasenko, Jori Lehtera, Paul Stastny and Alexander Steen scored for St, Louis while
    Taylor Hall and Lauri Korpikoski scored for Edmonton.

    Wild 4, Coyotes 3
    GLENDALE, Ariz. -- Minnesota scored two even-strength goals, a power-play goal and a short-handed goal to improve to 3-0-0 for the first time since 2008-09 with a win over Arizona.
    The Wild's best start came in 2006-07, when it won its first six games.
    Minnesota held a 3-0 lead midway through the game before the Coyotes made the game competitive in the late going. Wild goalie Devan Dubnyk, facing his former team, made 18 saves to post his 100th career win

  4. #64
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    NHL - Preview 16 Ottobre

    Preview: San Jose at New Jersey
    When: 7:00 PM ET, Friday, October 16, 2015
    Where: Prudential Center, Newark, New Jersey
    Two teams that have gotten off to completely different starts face off Friday as the unbeaten San Jose Sharks visit the winless New Jersey Devils. The contest marks the return to the Garden State for Peter DeBoer, who has San Jose firing on all cylinders in the early going.
    DeBoer led the Devils to the Stanley Cup Finals in his first season behind their bench but failed to guide the club to the playoffs the next two campaigns before being fired after a 12-17-7 start in 2014-15. The 47-year-old DeBoer is doing something right with the Sharks, who have started the season with a three-game winning streak during which they've allowed one goal. Martin Jones is embracing his first opportunity as a No. 1 goaltender as he's stopped 77 consecutive shots after allowing the first one he saw this season get by him and enters Friday with a 178:11 shutout streak. His success very well may continue against New Jersey, which has been held to one goal in two of its three games.
    TV: 7 p.m. ET, CSN California (San Jose), MSG Plus (New Jersey)
    ABOUT THE SHARKS (3-0-0): San Jose captains, past and present, are off to strong starts. Joe Pavelski, who was given the "C" just before the start of the season, leads the team with four points while former captains Joe Thornton and Patrick Marleau each have recorded two goals and an assist. Tomas Hertl also has tallied twice, giving the Sharks 11 players with multiple points.
    ABOUT THE DEVILS (0-3-0): New Jersey has totaled five goals over its first three games while allowing 11. Mike Cammalleri leads the club with three points as only eight players have landed on the scoresheet. Newcomers Kyle Palmieri, Jiri Tlusty and Lee Stempniak are tied for second with two points apiece.
    OVERTIME
    1. The Sharks are 11-for-11 on the penalty kill this season.
    2. New Jersey has begun a campaign with four straight losses only once in franchise history (2001-02).
    3. San Jose Ds Brenden Dillon, Justin Braun and Matt Tennyson are the only members of the team without a point.


    Preview: Toronto at Columbus
    When: 7:00 PM ET, Friday, October 16, 2015
    Where: Nationwide Arena, Columbus, Ohio
    After sprinting to a 15-1-1 flourish to end last season, the Columbus Blue Jackets have stumbled out of the blocks to begin the 2015-16 campaign. Mired in the franchise's worst start to a season, Columbus looks to get back on its feet Friday against another team searching for its first victory in the visiting Toronto Maple Leafs.
    "It's us getting back to basics and going back to the drawing board understanding who we are," captain Nick Foligno said after Columbus yielded the final five goals in a 7-3 setback to Ottawa on Wednesday. "We've obviously lost it somewhere along the way. It's disappointing because we're only four games in." Toronto has had plenty of time to think about its slow start, although it picked up a point with a 5-4 shootout loss to the Senators on Saturday. Captain Dion Phaneuf notched a pair of assists in that tilt and is the lone Maple Leaf with more than one point on the season.
    TV: 7 p.m. ET, TSN4 (Toronto), FSN Ohio (Columbus)
    ABOUT THE MAPLE LEAFS (0-2-1): While the Blue Jays' magical season has taken some of the spotlight off the woes of the Maple Leafs, coach Mike Babcock thinks his team can learn a thing or two (or more) from the reigning American League East champions. "I think it's great for our players to feel how excited the fans actually get when you put together a winner," Babcock said. James Reimer will look to improve his 0-3-0 career mark versus Columbus when he minds the net on Friday while Jonathan Bernier will be in goal for Saturday's tilt against Pittsburgh.
    ABOUT THE BLUE JACKETS (0-4-0): Sergei Bobrovsky looks light years removed from his 2013 Vezina Trophy-winning season, surrendering 18 goals with a gaudy 5.05 goals-against average and .830 save percentage. "I have zero confidence right now," Bobrovsky admitted to the Columbus Dispatch on Wednesday, one day before coach Todd Richards confirmed to reporters that the Russian would be back in net versus the Maple Leafs. Toronto native and former Maple Leaf David Clarkson has yet to get untracked, as he has been held off the scoresheet in all three games and amassed 14 penalty minutes.
    OVERTIME
    1. Columbus C Ryan Johansen is riding a four-game point streak to start the season and has collected six goals in seven career meetings with Toronto.
    2. Maple Leafs C Shawn Matthias is expected to return to the lineup after missing one game with a shoulder injury.
    3. Blue Jackets LW Brandon Saad has scored three power-play goals to match his career high in 78 games with Chicago in 2013-14.


    Preview: Carolina at Detroit
    When: 7:30 PM ET, Friday, October 16, 2015
    Where: Joe Louis Arena, Detroit, Michigan
    The Detroit Red Wings are 3-0-0 and there's no need to look past the production of captain Henrik Zetterberg, rugged wing Justin Abdelkader and rookie Dylan Larkin to explain the hot start. The top line, which has accounted for seven of the team's 11 goals and nine of its 19 assists, looks to help the Red Wings defeat Carolina for the second time this season when they host the winless Hurricanes on Friday.
    "They seem to have some pretty good chemistry,'' Detroit first-year coach Jeff Blashill told reporters after Tuesday's 3-1 victory over Tampa Bay. "It’s a pretty good mix of speed and size and skill and offensive smarts. They’ve obviously been productive. It’s good for us.” The trio combined for two goals and three assists in the Red Wings' 4-2 victory in Carolina on Oct. 10 - their fourth straight win over the Hurricanes after sweeping the three-game series last season. Carolina, meanwhile, has scored five goals in its 0-3-0 start after Tuesday's 4-1 loss to Florida. “I didn’t see much. I don’t think we did much of anything,” Hurricanes coach Bill Peters told reporters. “There weren’t many aspects or areas of the game that I liked.”
    TV: 7:30 p.m. ET, FSN Southeast (Carolina), FSN Detroit
    ABOUT THE HURRICANES (0-3-0): Carolina, which has not won a game in October since 2013 after going 0-6-2 last season, begins a seven-game road trip which includes two stops in Detroit. The Hurricanes called up left wing Brock McGinn from Charlotte of the American Hockey League, and he'll make his NHL debut on a line with captain Eric Staal and Kris Versteeg. "I definitely felt more comfortable and felt like I found my game,” McGinn, the 47th overall pick in the 2012 draft, told reporters after a solid training camp and preseason with Carolina before being one of the final players assigned to Charlotte.
    ABOUT THE RED WINGS (3-0-0): Detroit and physical play have not been synonymous in recent years, but it has outhit opponents 87-50 this season led by Abdelkader's 15. Zetterberg (team highs of five assists and seven points) and defenseman Mike Green did not practice Wednesday in what Blashill called maintenance days. Johan Franzen (concussion-like symptoms) has been placed on short-term injured reserve (seven days) after missing Tuesday's game.
    OVERTIME
    1. Red Wings D Danny DeKeyser (foot) and C Darren Helm (concussion) could make their season debuts Saturday in Montreal.
    2. Carolina is 1-7-1 in its last nine games in Detroit.
    3. The Red Wings are 2-for-8 on the power play while the Hurricanes are 1-for-13.


    Preview: Calgary at Winnipeg
    When: 8:00 PM ET, Friday, October 16, 2015
    Where: MTS Centre, Winnipeg, Manitoba
    Three victories in four games and a high-octane offense have fueled a flying start for the Winnipeg Jets, who open the home portion of their schedule Friday against the Calgary Flames. The Jets have scored a Western Conference-leading 15 goals during a 3-1-0 East Coast swing rallying from an early deficit Tuesday to beat the New York Rangers 4-1 as rookie Nikolaj Ehlers scored his first career goal.
    It is hard to imagine a better beginning for Winnipeg’s offense as eight Jets recorded multiple assists and 11 players scored through four games. It has been a much slower start for the Flames, who squandered a lead in Tuesday’s 4-3 loss to St. Louis. Rookie forward Sam Bennett, the fourth overall pick of last year’s draft, is pointless in his first three games. Left winger Johnny Gaudreau leads the Flames in points (five) and is among the league leaders with Winnipeg’s Mathieu Perreault in assists with four.
    TV: 8 p.m. ET, SportsNet Flames (Calgary), TSN3 (Winnipeg)
    ABOUT THE FLAMES (1-2-0): The Flames have been outscored 6-1 in the second period this season, giving up three goals to the Blues in the middle stanza Tuesday. “We can’t be playing 40-minute games,” left winger Mason Raymond told reporters after Calgary allowed four or more goals for the second time in three contests. The goaltending duo of Jonas Hiller (.897 save percentage) and Karri Ramo (.886) has struggled, with Hiller making 24 saves against St. Louis.
    ABOUT THE JETS (3-1-0): Michael Hutchinson made 40 saves against the Rangers and has turned aside 60-of-62 shots faced in two games, settling down the Winnipeg defense after allowing a goal on a three-on-one rush in the first period. “The feeling going back home is we can still get a lot better,” center Bryan Little, who helped turn around Tuesday’s game with a shorthanded tally, told reporters. Little is one of three Jets (Mark Scheifele and Blake Wheeler) to score multiple goals.
    OVERTIME
    1. Calary C Lance Bouma will miss three months after breaking his left fibula Tuesday. Bouma set career highs with 16 goals and 34 points last season.
    2. Winnipeg D Ben Chiarot was a late scratch with an undisclosed injury Tuesday and is listed as day-to-day.
    3. The Flames won two of the three matchups with Winnipeg last season.

  5. #65
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    Preview: St. Louis at Vancouver
    When: 10:00 PM ET, Friday, October 16, 2015
    Where: Rogers Arena, Vancouver, British Columbia
    After sweeping through Alberta, the St. Louis Blues continue their trek north of the border when they visit the Vancouver Canucks on Friday. St. Louis began its six-game road trip with a one-goal loss at Minnesota but bounced back with a 4-3 triumph in Calgary before skating to a 4-2 victory at Edmonton on Thursday.
    Jori Lehtera, Alex Steen and Paul Stastny each recorded a goal and an assist as the Blues defeated the Oilers for the second time already this season. Vancouver is beginning a five-game homestand after allowing a total of one goal in road victories over Anaheim and Los Angeles earlier this week. Ryan Miller needed to make only 15 saves against the Kings on Tuesday to post his 36th career shutout as the Canucks improved to 3-0-0 away from home. Vancouver swept the three-game season series in 2014-15, allowing two goals in two wins at St. Louis while surrendering five in a shootout victory at home.
    TV: 10 p.m. ET, FSN Midwest (St. Louis), RSN (Vancouver)
    ABOUT THE BLUES (3-1-0): Vladimir Tarasenko is off to a fast start, recording three goals and two assists in his first four games. The 23-year-old Russian led St. Louis in both goals (37) and points (73) last season. Steen and Troy Brouwer also have notched five points with two tallies and three assists apiece.
    ABOUT THE CANUCKS (3-0-1): With a roster that features Radim Vrbata and the Sedin twins, Vancouver has an unlikely leader in goals through four games in Adam Cracknell. The 30-year-old right wing, who began his career with St. Louis, has two tallies after recording a total of six over his first 82 NHL contests. Vrbata, who led the team with 31 goals last season, has yet to record a point in 2015-16.
    OVERTIME
    1. The Canucks have allowed more goals in one home game (three) than three road contests (two).
    2. St. Louis wraps up its road trip at Winnipeg and Montreal on Sunday and Tuesday, respectively.
    3. Vancouver RW Brandon Prust received a five-minute major for fighting on Tuesday to push him over 1,000 career penalty minutes.


    Preview: Colorado at Anaheim
    When: 10:00 PM ET, Friday, October 16, 2015
    Where: Honda Center, Anaheim, California
    Many believe the Anaheim Ducks will contend for the Stanley Cup, while those same "experts" wonder whether the Colorado Avalanche will qualify for the tournament. Expectations may vary between the clubs, but one similarity is evident as Anaheim hosts Colorado on Friday: Both teams are off to poor starts.
    "We can't play like this,'' Avalanche coach Patrick Roy told reporters after Colorado fell into a five-goal hole en route to a 6-2 loss to previously winless Boston on Wednesday that wrapped up a 1-2-0 season-opening homestand. "If we want to make the playoffs, this is not the type of performance we need.'' The Ducks are winless (0-2-1) after an eye-popping 4-0 loss to Arizona on Wednesday that left captain Ryan Getzlaf perplexed."We just have to wake up," Getzlaf told reporters. "We’re playing like a team not playing for anything right now. It’s about accountability throughout this locker room." Anaheim has scored one goal this season and is 0-for-6 on the power play while the Avalanche have totaled 12 tallies - four by captain Gabriel Landeskog - and is a league-best 5-for-10 with the man advantage.
    TV: 10 p.m. ET, Altitude (Colorado), Prime Ticket, FSN San Diego (Anaheim)
    ABOUT THE AVALANCHE (1-2-0): Landeskog and John Mitchell (three goals) both have scored in every game, while defenseman Erik Johnson and Jarome Iginla (591 career goals) have recorded two tallies apiece. "Just getting pucks to the net and my teammates driving to the net and creating space for me and just those things," Mitchell, who scored a career-best 12 goals during his rookie season with Toronto in 2006-07, told reporters. "I'm happy they are going in, but obviously I would like to win first." Semyon Varlamov (1-2-0, 5.07 goals-against average, .841 save percentage) was pulled in favor of backup Reto Berra after permitting five goals on 19 shots versus Boston, but he is expected to get the call Friday as Colorado begins a stretch in which it plays 17 of the next 24 on the road.
    ABOUT THE DUCKS (0-2-1): Coach Bruce Boudreau tinkered with his lines during the first two games, separating Getzlaf and former Hart Trophy winner Corey Perry, but putting the band back together - mostly with left wing Patrick Maroon - did little to ignite the offense versus the Coyotes. Defenseman Clayton Stoner (lower body) missed Wednesday's game and is questionable to play Friday. Frederik Andersen is expected to start in goal after backup Anton Khudobin allowed three tallies on eight shots in 12:53 and was lifted during his Anaheim debut Wednesday.
    OVERTIME
    1. D Francois Beauchemin, who has notched five assists in his first three games with the Avalanche, played nine seasons with the Ducks (2006-09, 2011-15) and won the Stanley Cup in 2007.
    2. Mitchell's three-game scoring streak is the first of his career.
    3. Anaheim won the 2014-15 season series 2-1-0, earning four points to Colorado's three, and has captured four of the last five meetings - two in overtime.


    Preview: Minnesota at Los Angeles
    When: 10:30 PM ET, Friday, October 16, 2015
    Where: Staples Center, Los Angeles, California
    The Minnesota Wild have little time to recover from a hard-fought victory as they continue their three-game road trip Friday against the Los Angeles Kings. Minnesota kicked off its trek by building a three-goal lead and holding on for a 4-3 triumph over previously unbeaten Arizona on Thursday.
    Zach Parise scored his league-leading fifth goal and added an assist as the Wild extended their season-opening winning streak to three games. Los Angeles remains in search of its first victory as it dropped a 3-0 decision to Vancouver. The Kings are 0-3-0 on their season-opening five-game homestand. The Kings have scored a total of two goals in the defeats while surrendering 12. Los Angeles won two of its three meetings last season with Minnesota, incuding the lone contest at Staples Center on Oct. 19, 2014.
    TV: 10:30 p.m. ET, FSN North, FSN Wisconsin (Minnesota), FSN West (Los Angeles)
    ABOUT THE WILD (3-0-0): Parise has scored in each game this campaign and four in a row dating back to the 2014-15 regular season. The 31-year-old is well on his way to the seventh 30-goal season of his career. Thomas Vanek reached a milestone Thursday, scoring his second goal of the campaign and the 300th in the NHL.
    ABOUT THE KINGS (0-3-0): Los Angeles has had only five players land on the scoresheet thus far, but the most likely names are absent. Anze Kopitar, Marian Gaborik and Milan Lucic have yet to record a point and have a combined minus-8 rating. Defenseman Jake Muzzin is tied with Columbus' William Karlsson with a league-worst minus-6.
    OVERTIME
    1. Minnesota G Devan Dubnyk registered his 100th career victory Thursday.
    2. Los Angeles D Derek Forbort is expected to make his NHL debut Friday in place of Matt Greene (undisclosed).
    3. Kings captain Dustin Brown practiced on the top line with Gaborik and Kopitar on Thursday, with Lucic dropping to the second line with C Jeff Carter and RW Tyler Toffoli.

  6. #66
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    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da gurupoker Visualizza Messaggio
    grande donk. ma mlb hai mollato???
    dopo una stagione davvero dura e onestamente negativa, mi sto almeno riprendendo alla grande nei playoffs (9W-2L).
    ieri sono uscito vivo dalla sconfitta dei dodgers in casa con greinke, ma nn mi fidavo di questi mets e degrom, anzi sono uscito in profitto andando su under che era la scelta piu logica (pochissimo valore sulla micro quota La)
    Si ma principalmente perch il mio main game l'hockey( e qui che guadagno bene mentre con la MLB ultimamente i risultati scarseggiavano e non l'ho + giocata(per ti parlo di un anno fa, quest'anno non ho mai giocato). Io l'avevo anche scritto che all'inzio volevo giocarmi anche la vittoria dei Capitals per via del back to back di Chicago ed anche perch nei precedenti dell'ultimo anno l'ha spuntata la franchigia di Washington per per le assenze, soprattutto quella del best player Oveckin, mi hanno fatto proprendere per il nobet.

    Cmq la bet su Minnesota frutta anche della mia esperieza del poker in quanto Arizona mi sembrava il classico fish in godrun e un reg con vpip 17 e pre flop raise 15 non vedeva l'ora di avere un KK per fargli sputare tutto dentro( ti parlo di fish aggro in quanto Arizona un team da over ). E quando arriva KK al tight( Minnesota un team solido ed esperto) il fish perde tutto con le 3 barrel proprio per il fatto che la troppa euforia non l'ho fa + giocare bene. A me Arizona ha dato questa impressione e sono sicuro che alla fine del campionato cmq arriver nelle penultime posizioni mentre Minnesota, come detto, migliorata moltissimo in esperienza ed anche in bravura perch due anni fa queste vittorie fuori casa non le facevano mai.

  7. #67
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    Per peccato che il palinsesto sull'hockey misero. Mi sarebbe piaciuto avere nel palinsesto la giocata marcatore si o no. Mi giocherei spesso Malkin per i Penguins, Oveckin per i Capitals e Tarasenko V per ST.Louis. Gli altri top player delle altre squadre al momento non li conosco

    Edit: Un piccolo antipasto prima di pubblicare i miei prono sul sito pickabet a breve: http://pokerforum.pokeritaliaweb.org...europa-35.html
    Ultima modifica di donk32; 16-10-15 alle 10:10

  8. #68
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    ahaha mi piace il parallelo hockey-poker coyotes=fish

  9. #69
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    Citazione Originariamente Scritto da donk32 Visualizza Messaggio
    Per peccato che il palinsesto sull'hockey misero. Mi sarebbe piaciuto avere nel palinsesto la giocata marcatore si o no. Mi giocherei spesso Malkin per i Penguins, Oveckin per i Capitals e Tarasenko V per ST.Louis. Gli altri top player delle altre squadre al momento non li conosco

    Edit: Un piccolo antipasto prima di pubblicare i miei prono sul sito pickabet a breve: http://pokerforum.pokeritaliaweb.org...europa-35.html
    ti seguo

  10. #70
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    Guru te mi hai chiesto chi secondo me quest'anno vincer la Stanley? Ti rispondo sempre alla stessa maniera: per me la vincono i Chicago Blackwaks perch a differenza degli altri team, tendono a dare il massimo proprio nella fase finale della post season. Io i Blackwaks non li gioco quasi mai nella season ma ney playoff la squadra su cui punto. A me i Duck non hanno mai convinto fino in fondo e sono sicuro che quest'anno non la vinceranno la Stanley. ST.Louis dispone di ottimi giocatori ma manca di esperienza nelle post season. A me un team che piace molto sono i Wild( li paragono all'Atletico Madrid del calcio) in quanto non hanno best player per sono un team esperto e attenti nella fase difensiva( infatti ogni anno registrano sempre la miglior difesa). Per me la vincono o i Blackwaks o i Canadiens( anche loro mi convincono tanto)

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